Technical chameleon and guitar virtuoso Paul Gilbert is back with 'WROC'; his first vocal album for a decade. Standing for "Washington's Rules of Civility," it's the Racer X / Mr. Big man's most outlandish offering to date. Using George Washington's Rules of Civility as the conceptual driving force, Gilbert has dared himself to think outside the box and use an etiquette guide dating back to the late 1500s as his main source of inspiration. We sat down for a chat with Paul about the album, and the end of the road for Mr. Big. Spark of celestial fire; Eamon O'Neill.
Photo; Sam Gehrke
Hi Paul, it's been a while since we last spoke, which was around the release of the Dio album.
That's a maybe two or three years, so yeah, it's been a little while.
You've been busy since then though, haven't you?
Well there was the whole Mr. Big farewell tour, which was about two years, and we did an album and a single, and yeah, I enjoyed the music and the people. There were a fair amount of days off on that tour, and I've started to go to a lot of zoos. I visited so many. I never did that before. I'd always just stay in my hotel room, and I thought; "I'm going to start going to the zoo in every country I can find it". So I saw rhinoceroses and emus and ant eaters all over the world.
Speaking about the end of Mr. Big, I was flicking through an old issue of The Guitar Magazine, and 'Lean Into It' [1991] and just been released, so that was before the success of 'To Be With You'; did you know it was going to be as big?
Well, as we're making it, I was really excited about it. We had done the first album [Mr. Big, 1989], and we had had some really good opportunities for touring, because we were a support band for Rush on their 'Presto' tour, and so that was amazing. We were playing in arenas and there were great audiences, but my instinct - I don't know if the rest of the band felt this way - but for me it felt like we were playing great, we were singing great, but the songs weren't quite connecting as much as they could. So to me, the focus of 'Lean into it' was we've got to get some songs that have stronger melodies or just better songs, somehow. So I think we accomplished the mission. I mean, I thought the songs on 'Lean into it' were really a step up from the first album.
We're here to talk about your new album 'WROC', which stands for 'Washington's Rules of Civility'; what a crazy concept, putting Washington's words to your music!
Well, I had to sing about something, and when you're a teenager or when you're in your early 20s, you can sing about, you know, "I'm trying to find that girl". and it sort of makes sense that the standard rock and roll subjects fit right in when you're that age. I'm in my late fifties, so I'm not going to be singing about this. I still love that music, but I thought; "what am I going to sing about?", and on previous albums, I had songs like 'Everybody use your Goddamn Turn Signal' [2016], which is kind of 'old guy' rock, criticising small annoyances. And I thought, well, I could do more of that, but I found that although I really enjoyed doing that in the studio - because it was a good riff, and it was kind of a funny lick - I felt when I got that on stage that it didn't really unite the audience in a feeling of like; "yeah, we're all pissed off at people that don't use their turn signals" together. It just didn't quite land the way that it could have.
So you wanted something more unifying, lyrically?
I thought; "well, what are the lyrics going to be about?", and I had read the Washington Rules of Civility decades ago, and somehow it just popped into my head. I was actually on the airplane flying back from the last Mr. Big Show in Japan, and so I didn't have the book with me, but I was having a conversation with AI, and first of all, I couldn't remember what it was called. I was like; "this is some George Washington thing", you know; "these be rules of etiquette", and it pulled it up. Then it was; "what are some of the rules? Can you make that into a lyric?", and I'm sort of bossing AI around to do it, and as I was having this conversation with AI, I started to really like the result.
That was a great jump-off point; it obviously inspired your creativity!
I like the general theme of being polite and civil, and so I got at home and started putting some of the music together, and I've never had such a good time writing songs in my life! I really enjoyed the process. I was just a little concerned because obviously, it's an unusual thing to sing about, so I brought a couple of musicians over, the guys that ended up playing my album; Timmer [Blakely, bass] and Doug [Rappoport, guitar], and I just watched their faces as we're playing the stuff and I'm singing it, just to see if they're looking at me like this is crazy or if they're smiling and happy, and they were smiling and happy, so, okay, that's a good sign.
You're talking about uniting audience, and the message in a song like 'Conscience is the Most Certain Judge' is universal.
Yeah, but I haven't played them live yet, but I think the stuff will go over really good. It's also it's going to be fun to put the harmonies together because that song, and many like it, are deceptively simple, where you know you can hear it, you can hum the melody, but when you try to put those harmonies to it, they're crazy. I really sat down and really worked those out, and when you get them right, they're beautiful. So that's one of my favourite parts of the record, just the work that I put into those harmonies to navigate the chord changes, because the chord changes, I hope they feel natural as they go by, but there's actually a lot of modulations and surprise chord changes in there that are unexpected, especially when you have to sing the harmony part.
That's a maybe two or three years, so yeah, it's been a little while.
You've been busy since then though, haven't you?
Well there was the whole Mr. Big farewell tour, which was about two years, and we did an album and a single, and yeah, I enjoyed the music and the people. There were a fair amount of days off on that tour, and I've started to go to a lot of zoos. I visited so many. I never did that before. I'd always just stay in my hotel room, and I thought; "I'm going to start going to the zoo in every country I can find it". So I saw rhinoceroses and emus and ant eaters all over the world.
Speaking about the end of Mr. Big, I was flicking through an old issue of The Guitar Magazine, and 'Lean Into It' [1991] and just been released, so that was before the success of 'To Be With You'; did you know it was going to be as big?
Well, as we're making it, I was really excited about it. We had done the first album [Mr. Big, 1989], and we had had some really good opportunities for touring, because we were a support band for Rush on their 'Presto' tour, and so that was amazing. We were playing in arenas and there were great audiences, but my instinct - I don't know if the rest of the band felt this way - but for me it felt like we were playing great, we were singing great, but the songs weren't quite connecting as much as they could. So to me, the focus of 'Lean into it' was we've got to get some songs that have stronger melodies or just better songs, somehow. So I think we accomplished the mission. I mean, I thought the songs on 'Lean into it' were really a step up from the first album.
We're here to talk about your new album 'WROC', which stands for 'Washington's Rules of Civility'; what a crazy concept, putting Washington's words to your music!
Well, I had to sing about something, and when you're a teenager or when you're in your early 20s, you can sing about, you know, "I'm trying to find that girl". and it sort of makes sense that the standard rock and roll subjects fit right in when you're that age. I'm in my late fifties, so I'm not going to be singing about this. I still love that music, but I thought; "what am I going to sing about?", and on previous albums, I had songs like 'Everybody use your Goddamn Turn Signal' [2016], which is kind of 'old guy' rock, criticising small annoyances. And I thought, well, I could do more of that, but I found that although I really enjoyed doing that in the studio - because it was a good riff, and it was kind of a funny lick - I felt when I got that on stage that it didn't really unite the audience in a feeling of like; "yeah, we're all pissed off at people that don't use their turn signals" together. It just didn't quite land the way that it could have.
So you wanted something more unifying, lyrically?
I thought; "well, what are the lyrics going to be about?", and I had read the Washington Rules of Civility decades ago, and somehow it just popped into my head. I was actually on the airplane flying back from the last Mr. Big Show in Japan, and so I didn't have the book with me, but I was having a conversation with AI, and first of all, I couldn't remember what it was called. I was like; "this is some George Washington thing", you know; "these be rules of etiquette", and it pulled it up. Then it was; "what are some of the rules? Can you make that into a lyric?", and I'm sort of bossing AI around to do it, and as I was having this conversation with AI, I started to really like the result.
That was a great jump-off point; it obviously inspired your creativity!
I like the general theme of being polite and civil, and so I got at home and started putting some of the music together, and I've never had such a good time writing songs in my life! I really enjoyed the process. I was just a little concerned because obviously, it's an unusual thing to sing about, so I brought a couple of musicians over, the guys that ended up playing my album; Timmer [Blakely, bass] and Doug [Rappoport, guitar], and I just watched their faces as we're playing the stuff and I'm singing it, just to see if they're looking at me like this is crazy or if they're smiling and happy, and they were smiling and happy, so, okay, that's a good sign.
You're talking about uniting audience, and the message in a song like 'Conscience is the Most Certain Judge' is universal.
Yeah, but I haven't played them live yet, but I think the stuff will go over really good. It's also it's going to be fun to put the harmonies together because that song, and many like it, are deceptively simple, where you know you can hear it, you can hum the melody, but when you try to put those harmonies to it, they're crazy. I really sat down and really worked those out, and when you get them right, they're beautiful. So that's one of my favourite parts of the record, just the work that I put into those harmonies to navigate the chord changes, because the chord changes, I hope they feel natural as they go by, but there's actually a lot of modulations and surprise chord changes in there that are unexpected, especially when you have to sing the harmony part.
The album was recorded in just four days, was it? Was it done live?
Yeah, we did it live and then I went back and I re-sang my lead vocals because I knew I could do better. Then on the very last day of the recording sessions, I had all the guys in the band - Nick, Doug and Timmer - sing the harmonies, and then I also sang the harmonies to thicken them up with my own voice. So basically the music is live, and I was singing in the studio just in case I got a good one, but when I'd listen to it, it's like; "I can do it better if I have another chance".
Is it nice to go back and do something really sparse like that, and just going and do this in four days; is that refreshing for you?
Well, I don't know if sparse is the right word, because I did have a second guitar player so that thickens it up a good deal, but I think with that instrumentation; two guitars, bass and drums, you get an immediate sense of how expansive your part or your playing needs to be to fill up the space. Doug's a great soloist if he needs to be and a great rhythm player too, and so I love that; having a live band where we kind of feel that out, rather than having a bunch of carefully overdubbed things, and you just keep overdubbing, because as you do that, you sort of lose the character of the of the players themselves, and I think with more live instrumentation, you can really hear the fingerprint of the of the musicians and you hear their style more.
It's the opposite of say, Def Leppard's 'Hysteria', where they spent two and a half years producing it.
I mean, those records are amazing. but I think the thing I like about this is it's as a unique, and in a way, you never quite know what you're going to get, but you know when you've got it. You know you when you go in and you play live after maybe three takes and you get to listen to it, you go; "oh, it's almost there", and then immediately you know what you need to work on, whereas with overdubbing, sometimes you don't really know what's wrong with it until you finish it, and then it's too late. Live, it's really obvious what's not right and you can fix it immediately because you have another chance, and then often, not only is it right, but often it's magic! I mean, one of the moments to me on the record that's magic is at the very beginning, where I do this little Phrygian dominant solo and I end on a chord, and the whole band is with me, and the way that chord tunes up and resonates is so beautiful. We probably did that intro five times, and that was just like; "oh, listen to that chord there! I'll never get that again in my life!". and that stuff is just wonderful when you get when you get those.
What was the longest you've ever spent working on an album? Was it one of the Mr. Big ones?
Well, it depends. The early Mr. Big ones, we'd play live in the studio, but then often we'd go back and recut. The goal with it playing live was to get a good feeling drum track, and usually we wouldn't use a click. With Pat [Torpey], you had great time, and then we might go back and recut the guitar and the bass later on. We got more live as it went.
I would say the things that actually really took me the longest might be something like the Dio album, where I played all the instruments, and if you do that, nothing's live. I was also copying a previous recording, so I'm being really meticulous about listening and not just playing what I feel, but I'm trying to get that Vivian Campbell part right, then trying to get the Dio part right, so that was much more a built-in-the-studio kind of thing.
I can see the double-neck guitar sitting behind you that you use in the video for 'Conscious is the Most Certain Judge'.
I bought that when I was living in Las Vegas, so it was probably late '90s. There's a picture of me playing that guitar in the back of the 'Burning Organ' [2002] album, so it's probably around then, like, 1999, 2000, somewhere around there. It's such a good instrument. The twelve-string on it sounds amazing, and I actually used it on a few of the songs. I used it on of course, 'Conscious is the Most Certain Judge', and I used it on 'Let Thy Carriage', and then there was one more, 'If You Soak Bread in the Sauce'. The titles are so funny! I love it!
One of the tracks I love is 'Go Not Tither'; it's such a driving rocker.
Well, that one I wasn't going to put that on the record at first, because I didn't have the whole song finished. I just had the main part, and I thought; "oh, that's just kind of normal, it's like a Deep Purple riff", and of course, I love Deep Purple riffs, but I wanted something that was a little more me. I thought that anybody could write this riff, but then when I combined it with the with the arpeggiated chord part that goes to the six, eight groove, that change kind of made it into a song for me. And as I wrote the verse, it came with some other changes and it just became more melodic. Initially, when it was just straight ahead, sort of blues rock, I couldn't find something that really felt like something unique from myself, so that took a little bit of punching around. But I love singing that one because I had a couple of really high screams and notes that actually work for my voice, and then the rest of it kind of goes down low so I don't kill myself.
Yeah, we did it live and then I went back and I re-sang my lead vocals because I knew I could do better. Then on the very last day of the recording sessions, I had all the guys in the band - Nick, Doug and Timmer - sing the harmonies, and then I also sang the harmonies to thicken them up with my own voice. So basically the music is live, and I was singing in the studio just in case I got a good one, but when I'd listen to it, it's like; "I can do it better if I have another chance".
Is it nice to go back and do something really sparse like that, and just going and do this in four days; is that refreshing for you?
Well, I don't know if sparse is the right word, because I did have a second guitar player so that thickens it up a good deal, but I think with that instrumentation; two guitars, bass and drums, you get an immediate sense of how expansive your part or your playing needs to be to fill up the space. Doug's a great soloist if he needs to be and a great rhythm player too, and so I love that; having a live band where we kind of feel that out, rather than having a bunch of carefully overdubbed things, and you just keep overdubbing, because as you do that, you sort of lose the character of the of the players themselves, and I think with more live instrumentation, you can really hear the fingerprint of the of the musicians and you hear their style more.
It's the opposite of say, Def Leppard's 'Hysteria', where they spent two and a half years producing it.
I mean, those records are amazing. but I think the thing I like about this is it's as a unique, and in a way, you never quite know what you're going to get, but you know when you've got it. You know you when you go in and you play live after maybe three takes and you get to listen to it, you go; "oh, it's almost there", and then immediately you know what you need to work on, whereas with overdubbing, sometimes you don't really know what's wrong with it until you finish it, and then it's too late. Live, it's really obvious what's not right and you can fix it immediately because you have another chance, and then often, not only is it right, but often it's magic! I mean, one of the moments to me on the record that's magic is at the very beginning, where I do this little Phrygian dominant solo and I end on a chord, and the whole band is with me, and the way that chord tunes up and resonates is so beautiful. We probably did that intro five times, and that was just like; "oh, listen to that chord there! I'll never get that again in my life!". and that stuff is just wonderful when you get when you get those.
What was the longest you've ever spent working on an album? Was it one of the Mr. Big ones?
Well, it depends. The early Mr. Big ones, we'd play live in the studio, but then often we'd go back and recut. The goal with it playing live was to get a good feeling drum track, and usually we wouldn't use a click. With Pat [Torpey], you had great time, and then we might go back and recut the guitar and the bass later on. We got more live as it went.
I would say the things that actually really took me the longest might be something like the Dio album, where I played all the instruments, and if you do that, nothing's live. I was also copying a previous recording, so I'm being really meticulous about listening and not just playing what I feel, but I'm trying to get that Vivian Campbell part right, then trying to get the Dio part right, so that was much more a built-in-the-studio kind of thing.
I can see the double-neck guitar sitting behind you that you use in the video for 'Conscious is the Most Certain Judge'.
I bought that when I was living in Las Vegas, so it was probably late '90s. There's a picture of me playing that guitar in the back of the 'Burning Organ' [2002] album, so it's probably around then, like, 1999, 2000, somewhere around there. It's such a good instrument. The twelve-string on it sounds amazing, and I actually used it on a few of the songs. I used it on of course, 'Conscious is the Most Certain Judge', and I used it on 'Let Thy Carriage', and then there was one more, 'If You Soak Bread in the Sauce'. The titles are so funny! I love it!
One of the tracks I love is 'Go Not Tither'; it's such a driving rocker.
Well, that one I wasn't going to put that on the record at first, because I didn't have the whole song finished. I just had the main part, and I thought; "oh, that's just kind of normal, it's like a Deep Purple riff", and of course, I love Deep Purple riffs, but I wanted something that was a little more me. I thought that anybody could write this riff, but then when I combined it with the with the arpeggiated chord part that goes to the six, eight groove, that change kind of made it into a song for me. And as I wrote the verse, it came with some other changes and it just became more melodic. Initially, when it was just straight ahead, sort of blues rock, I couldn't find something that really felt like something unique from myself, so that took a little bit of punching around. But I love singing that one because I had a couple of really high screams and notes that actually work for my voice, and then the rest of it kind of goes down low so I don't kill myself.
You're using some great guitar tones, from the dry sound on 'Conscience is the Most Certain Judge', to whatever it is you have going on on 'Go Not Tither'.
Oh, that's probably an MXR Stereo Chorus, which actually, in Mr. Big, I was using that all the time because I found on the Mr. Big tour that the majority of my rhythm playing was playing like soft arpeggiated chords with a lot of distortion, which reminds me of Randy Rhoads. When Randy Rhoads would play 'Goodbye to Romance', where the arpeggiated chords are, he's got this fire breathing tone, and I think Randy used an MXR Stereo Chorus, and it's such a good sounding pedal for that.
Didn't you attend a Randy Rhoads seminar in the early 1980s?
Yeah, I mean, it was amazing that he did. I think it was the only seminar he did in his life, and it was in Greensburg, Pennsylvania, which is the little town I grew up in. So I was like; "of course, I'm going to that!" He mostly answered questions. He wasn't really prepared as a clinician because it was just a one off, but he was nice enough to come and answer questions. He worked hard, and he did, I don't know, four or five seminars that day, because they couldn't fit everybody that wanted to come and see him. So they'd bring in one group of people, and then get them out, get another in, so I heard that as the day went on, he played more and more, but I didn't see those.
I was about to ask if you got to watch Randy up close.
Well, I watched him up close at the show because I got down in front that night at the arena, but the other cool thing was he spent some time with the guys at the music store, and then afterwards, because I knew the music store guys, they were like; "yeah, Randy showed me how he played..." you know, 'Steal Away (The Night)' or whatever, and I got the right fingering from them because Randy showed them.
That must have been really cool, as a guitar student.
Yeah, I used to go to concerts with binoculars, and I'd have really specific things in mind, like when Eddie Van Halen played the song 'Loss of Control'; it's an open string riff for the A and the D, but then he goes to C, and he gets this ferocious tone, and I got to see how he does that. You know; "is it third position or eighth position?!" I'm there, but I was just waiting for him to do that part; "oh, it's eighth position!". I'd get all kinds of questions answered.
You sent a tape to Ozzy Osbourne about joining his band when you were 15, didn't you?
Well, I didn't have Ozzy's address, so I sent the tape to Mike Varney [Shrapnel Records founder], because he was the only person I could find that had a public address that you could send something to. I had a cassette of a bunch of copy songs that I played with my band. We were playing 'Rock Candy' by Montrose, and I had a long, unaccompanied solo, and Mike called me back right away, which was, to me, really exciting. Like; "wow!" You know, a guy in California has a record company, and he's calling me on the phone?! So I was thrilled, but when he found out I was 15, he was like; "Ozzy doesn't want a 15 year old in the band".
The Shrapnel label was a hotbed for guitarists joining big bands; Marty Friedman's went to Megadeth and Jason Becker to David Lee Roth, and you must have had so many offers; who approached you during that period?
Well, the thing is, I was in a band [Racer X], and actually, the person who approached me was Billy Sheehan, and that was Mr. Big, so that's the one I did. But before then, I can't really remember any because I was so into Racer X, and we were a really a strong unit. Billy was really a hero of mine. I used to go watch him play in Talas, and of course the playing he did with David Lee Roth was great, but I was mostly a Talas fan. I used to see them all the time.
What was it like when you first got together with Billy Sheehan?
I think when we got together, we were both pleasantly surprised that we knew so many of the same cover songs; everything from heavy metal - we're both big fans of Accept - but we also were fans of Motown, and of Hendrix and almost any song. We'd learned from the same stuff.
What was it like when Mr. Big went on to become achieve huge success, particularly in Japan where it was apparently like Beatlemania?
Yeah, we couldn't leave the hotel. Pat and I, we were sneaking out of the parking garage because the hotel was surrounded, and we'd run through the train stations, and we'd go through the kitchen a lo, and they would let us in through the employee entrances. We got so many cool gifts, and after the show our hotel room be filled with all the letters and gifts and stuff, so it was really cool. But I remember getting back, and at the time I was living in Las Vegas, and I just walked into the grocery store to get some chicken breasts or something, and I remember thinking; "this is actually really good for my personal sanity to not have that Beatlemania happening everywhere".
That sounds intense.
It was really fun. I'm really happy about it. That was wonderful, but if that was happening everywhere you went that could mess with your head, so it was nice to go back to Las Vegas, where nobody cares who I am; I'm just some tall guy with scraggly hair. So it worked out well; enough fame and rock star experiences to satisfy that that itch, but enough sanity and humbling experiences so you don't become crazy.
Now that the farewell tour is done, do you miss playing with Mr. Big?
Well, that's a good question. I mean, because we were together for a long time, that's an experience that I've had. I know what that is. There's some great things about it. Sometimes I get bowled over a little bit because Billy is such a commanding musician. In fact, I think a lot of the stuff that I've learned on how to be a showman were from where I'd be on my side of the stage, I look over and Billy's arms go wildly and he's playing one note he's so animated, physically, and it was like; "well, I've got to keep up, hold up my end of the deal here", so I'd get something going on as a performer. But I think now, I look for different things just because I don't want to do the same thing in my whole life. I really enjoy playing and jamming with different musicians. I jammed with Steve Morse at the NAMM Show recently, and that was that was so much fun. I had such a good time playing with him. We didn't even have bass, and I just stomped on the ground so we'd have a drum beat. Two guitars, and that was it.
Oh, that's probably an MXR Stereo Chorus, which actually, in Mr. Big, I was using that all the time because I found on the Mr. Big tour that the majority of my rhythm playing was playing like soft arpeggiated chords with a lot of distortion, which reminds me of Randy Rhoads. When Randy Rhoads would play 'Goodbye to Romance', where the arpeggiated chords are, he's got this fire breathing tone, and I think Randy used an MXR Stereo Chorus, and it's such a good sounding pedal for that.
Didn't you attend a Randy Rhoads seminar in the early 1980s?
Yeah, I mean, it was amazing that he did. I think it was the only seminar he did in his life, and it was in Greensburg, Pennsylvania, which is the little town I grew up in. So I was like; "of course, I'm going to that!" He mostly answered questions. He wasn't really prepared as a clinician because it was just a one off, but he was nice enough to come and answer questions. He worked hard, and he did, I don't know, four or five seminars that day, because they couldn't fit everybody that wanted to come and see him. So they'd bring in one group of people, and then get them out, get another in, so I heard that as the day went on, he played more and more, but I didn't see those.
I was about to ask if you got to watch Randy up close.
Well, I watched him up close at the show because I got down in front that night at the arena, but the other cool thing was he spent some time with the guys at the music store, and then afterwards, because I knew the music store guys, they were like; "yeah, Randy showed me how he played..." you know, 'Steal Away (The Night)' or whatever, and I got the right fingering from them because Randy showed them.
That must have been really cool, as a guitar student.
Yeah, I used to go to concerts with binoculars, and I'd have really specific things in mind, like when Eddie Van Halen played the song 'Loss of Control'; it's an open string riff for the A and the D, but then he goes to C, and he gets this ferocious tone, and I got to see how he does that. You know; "is it third position or eighth position?!" I'm there, but I was just waiting for him to do that part; "oh, it's eighth position!". I'd get all kinds of questions answered.
You sent a tape to Ozzy Osbourne about joining his band when you were 15, didn't you?
Well, I didn't have Ozzy's address, so I sent the tape to Mike Varney [Shrapnel Records founder], because he was the only person I could find that had a public address that you could send something to. I had a cassette of a bunch of copy songs that I played with my band. We were playing 'Rock Candy' by Montrose, and I had a long, unaccompanied solo, and Mike called me back right away, which was, to me, really exciting. Like; "wow!" You know, a guy in California has a record company, and he's calling me on the phone?! So I was thrilled, but when he found out I was 15, he was like; "Ozzy doesn't want a 15 year old in the band".
The Shrapnel label was a hotbed for guitarists joining big bands; Marty Friedman's went to Megadeth and Jason Becker to David Lee Roth, and you must have had so many offers; who approached you during that period?
Well, the thing is, I was in a band [Racer X], and actually, the person who approached me was Billy Sheehan, and that was Mr. Big, so that's the one I did. But before then, I can't really remember any because I was so into Racer X, and we were a really a strong unit. Billy was really a hero of mine. I used to go watch him play in Talas, and of course the playing he did with David Lee Roth was great, but I was mostly a Talas fan. I used to see them all the time.
What was it like when you first got together with Billy Sheehan?
I think when we got together, we were both pleasantly surprised that we knew so many of the same cover songs; everything from heavy metal - we're both big fans of Accept - but we also were fans of Motown, and of Hendrix and almost any song. We'd learned from the same stuff.
What was it like when Mr. Big went on to become achieve huge success, particularly in Japan where it was apparently like Beatlemania?
Yeah, we couldn't leave the hotel. Pat and I, we were sneaking out of the parking garage because the hotel was surrounded, and we'd run through the train stations, and we'd go through the kitchen a lo, and they would let us in through the employee entrances. We got so many cool gifts, and after the show our hotel room be filled with all the letters and gifts and stuff, so it was really cool. But I remember getting back, and at the time I was living in Las Vegas, and I just walked into the grocery store to get some chicken breasts or something, and I remember thinking; "this is actually really good for my personal sanity to not have that Beatlemania happening everywhere".
That sounds intense.
It was really fun. I'm really happy about it. That was wonderful, but if that was happening everywhere you went that could mess with your head, so it was nice to go back to Las Vegas, where nobody cares who I am; I'm just some tall guy with scraggly hair. So it worked out well; enough fame and rock star experiences to satisfy that that itch, but enough sanity and humbling experiences so you don't become crazy.
Now that the farewell tour is done, do you miss playing with Mr. Big?
Well, that's a good question. I mean, because we were together for a long time, that's an experience that I've had. I know what that is. There's some great things about it. Sometimes I get bowled over a little bit because Billy is such a commanding musician. In fact, I think a lot of the stuff that I've learned on how to be a showman were from where I'd be on my side of the stage, I look over and Billy's arms go wildly and he's playing one note he's so animated, physically, and it was like; "well, I've got to keep up, hold up my end of the deal here", so I'd get something going on as a performer. But I think now, I look for different things just because I don't want to do the same thing in my whole life. I really enjoy playing and jamming with different musicians. I jammed with Steve Morse at the NAMM Show recently, and that was that was so much fun. I had such a good time playing with him. We didn't even have bass, and I just stomped on the ground so we'd have a drum beat. Two guitars, and that was it.
Photo; Sam Gehrke
We've got to talk about the costume, because it goes in nicely with what you're saying about the showmanship.
It was kind of a last minute decision because at first I thought; "the lyrics, that's enough", but then I hired a guy to shoot the videos, and I thought; "well, if it's on video...", and plus, it solves hair problems! If I've got a hat, I don't worry about the hair. The trick was, I'm really tall, and the place that made the clothes, you can measure yourself and they'll custom make it, but the boots - because I'm about a size 14 or size 15 shoe - I ordered them on Etsy, and they came just in time. They made them in Turkey or some Eastern European country, and they're great, but it's not easy to find size 15, eighteenth century riding boots.
You're going out on a US tour shortly; are you going to wear the gear, and how much of the album are you going to play?
Well, it could change as we see how it goes over, but my initial plan is I'll have the hat reserved for the new songs. Maybe it'll be sitting on my amp or something, so people will see it there, and then at some point, I'll dramatically place it on my head, and then we'll do the new material. So that'll signify that these are the WROC songs.
That's a great visual cue!
Yeah. but I must admit, the shirt is kind of a piratey shirt, so that reminds me of Yngwie [Malmsteen] a little bit, you know? He looks kind of like a swashbuckler.
Have you any plans to bring the tour over to Europe?
The people that book gigs are working on that, so hopefully they'll have some good news for that soon.
What else have you got coming up? Are you still teaching?
There's an online school at Artist Works that I've done for13 years, and I've done more than 16,000 lessons there and they're all in the archives, but it got to the point where at the same time I'm making albums and preparing for tours, and I just couldn't juggle all these things at once. So I've actually stepped back from doing the teaching. At some point I may rethink that or return to teaching, and actually, when I go on the road, I often do a VIP thing where there'll be some one-on-one lessons available for an unreasonable price. But I love teaching. It's just there's only so many hours in a day.
Is your focus then completely on the album and I'm being a solo artist these days?
Yeah, and it's a lot of preparing for the tour. I really want it to be a great show so I've got the new stuff, which I'm really happy with, but also I know people expect to hear their favourite stuff from my past, so I've been working up these medleys that have all the highlights. So, you want to hear 'Fuzz Universe, you want to hear 'Silence Followed by a Deafening Roar, 'Technical Difficulties', 'Scarified'; I want to make sure all that stuff's in there. I might shorten the songs so there's enough time to do all of them because if I do all the favourites, we're going to run out of time. So that's the thing. just putting all the highlights together. That's takes a lot of practice for both the band and myself, because the highlights are usually the things that are hard to play.
Does it take a lot of work for you, personally to stay in shape to play those?
Yeah, I've been coming down every morning and just really working, and it's an amazing exercise, because when I first do it, I don't normally work on technique that much, and for this, if you practice, you actually do get better [laughing]. I'll sit there, watching my hand, going; "wow, I forgot I could do that!" That's kind of a fun thing to do, is to dust off the old crazy technique songs.
'WROC' is released on 27 February via Music Theories Recordings. Pre-Order/Stream here.
It was kind of a last minute decision because at first I thought; "the lyrics, that's enough", but then I hired a guy to shoot the videos, and I thought; "well, if it's on video...", and plus, it solves hair problems! If I've got a hat, I don't worry about the hair. The trick was, I'm really tall, and the place that made the clothes, you can measure yourself and they'll custom make it, but the boots - because I'm about a size 14 or size 15 shoe - I ordered them on Etsy, and they came just in time. They made them in Turkey or some Eastern European country, and they're great, but it's not easy to find size 15, eighteenth century riding boots.
You're going out on a US tour shortly; are you going to wear the gear, and how much of the album are you going to play?
Well, it could change as we see how it goes over, but my initial plan is I'll have the hat reserved for the new songs. Maybe it'll be sitting on my amp or something, so people will see it there, and then at some point, I'll dramatically place it on my head, and then we'll do the new material. So that'll signify that these are the WROC songs.
That's a great visual cue!
Yeah. but I must admit, the shirt is kind of a piratey shirt, so that reminds me of Yngwie [Malmsteen] a little bit, you know? He looks kind of like a swashbuckler.
Have you any plans to bring the tour over to Europe?
The people that book gigs are working on that, so hopefully they'll have some good news for that soon.
What else have you got coming up? Are you still teaching?
There's an online school at Artist Works that I've done for13 years, and I've done more than 16,000 lessons there and they're all in the archives, but it got to the point where at the same time I'm making albums and preparing for tours, and I just couldn't juggle all these things at once. So I've actually stepped back from doing the teaching. At some point I may rethink that or return to teaching, and actually, when I go on the road, I often do a VIP thing where there'll be some one-on-one lessons available for an unreasonable price. But I love teaching. It's just there's only so many hours in a day.
Is your focus then completely on the album and I'm being a solo artist these days?
Yeah, and it's a lot of preparing for the tour. I really want it to be a great show so I've got the new stuff, which I'm really happy with, but also I know people expect to hear their favourite stuff from my past, so I've been working up these medleys that have all the highlights. So, you want to hear 'Fuzz Universe, you want to hear 'Silence Followed by a Deafening Roar, 'Technical Difficulties', 'Scarified'; I want to make sure all that stuff's in there. I might shorten the songs so there's enough time to do all of them because if I do all the favourites, we're going to run out of time. So that's the thing. just putting all the highlights together. That's takes a lot of practice for both the band and myself, because the highlights are usually the things that are hard to play.
Does it take a lot of work for you, personally to stay in shape to play those?
Yeah, I've been coming down every morning and just really working, and it's an amazing exercise, because when I first do it, I don't normally work on technique that much, and for this, if you practice, you actually do get better [laughing]. I'll sit there, watching my hand, going; "wow, I forgot I could do that!" That's kind of a fun thing to do, is to dust off the old crazy technique songs.
'WROC' is released on 27 February via Music Theories Recordings. Pre-Order/Stream here.
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