One of the most explosive metal acts of the 1980s, W.A.S.P. blew the doors off the shock rock genre with their over the top image and theatrics. They had the songs too, most notably from the off, with their classic 1984 debut which they'll be celebrating in full on their forthcoming 'Album One Alive' tour. "When we first came up with the idea a couple years ago, I wasn't sure how well it would be received", confesses main man Blackie Lawless as we sit down for a chat; "it wasn't until we got in front of people that I saw their reaction, and I went; "oh, we've got a huge fish on the hook here!" Discussing the tour, how grunge affected 'The Crimson Idol', the darkness of 'KFD' and the supposed over correction of 'Helldorado', we go in depth with the creative behind W.A.S.P. Hellion; Eamon O'Neill.
Hi Blackie. W.A.S.P. are returning to the road in Europe with 'Album One Alive' tour; how does it feel to be bringing it over here?
Well, I'll be honest, when we first came up with the idea a couple years ago, I wasn't sure how well it would be received, and I've been more than pleasantly surprised. You know, being on the inside, it's always hard to tell; you never really know how the world is going to react, but the reaction has been even greater than we had hoped, so it's been really terrific.
It's only the second time that you've ever performed an album whole, the other being 'The Crimson Idol'. They're obviously very different albums; is the approach the same, or do you have to get in a different headspace?
I don't know if the headspace is any different, but what was different was, I was not convinced, and you might laugh when you hear this, but I was not at all convinced that this album could stand on its own. The reason being is because after you have a number of albums in your in your catalogue, when you go out and you do a show, effectively, you're doing a 'best of' set, and so you get to cherry pick the best from all those records, and it's very hard for a single album to stand up against something like that. It's been forty years since we've done this record in its entirety, and I just didn't know if it would work well or not. So we took it in rehearsal, and we tried it, and it was okay, and I thought; "okay, I think we've got something", but it wasn't until we got in front of people that I saw their reaction, and I went; "oh, we've got a huge fish on the hook here!"
The first W.A.S.P. album is regarded as an out and out classic.
You might think, well, how come I didn't understand it? Listen; when you're on the inside of the bubble, you never see what the world sees. You're insulated, you're sheltered, and you just you never see it. I mean, think about some album you listen to when you were growing up that really had a life-altering effect on you; you remember where you were at that moment, you remember the setting, you remember who you were with, all those things. You remember all of that when you think back on that record the rest of your life, but when you're the person that makes that record, you never have that opportunity to hear it for the first time. You hear it in little increments when it's being made, but you never really get to have that one moment where you go; "oh shit", and you realise you're listening to not just greatness; but life-altering greatness, social changing greatness, that kind of thing. You never get that moment when you're the person that does it.
That's an interesting way to put it.
You get robbed of that, but at the same time, you get other things that the public will never see, because when you're the one in the studio making it, you're there when those little moments of magic are born, and that's something the world will never experience. You were there when it was being created, so there's trade offs, but the concept of hearing an album in its entirety for the first time to be able to sit down and and savour something like that, those are very, very special moments. And again, when you're the one that does it, you never really get to experience that.
There's some tracks that haven't been performed in years; what is it like going back and playing something like 'The Flame' and 'The Torture Never Stops'? Were there cobwebs to dust off?
Well, we went into rehearsal to try it first because we didn't want to make an announcement and then, after the announcement, go into rehearsal and go; "oh, this isn't working", but it was a pleasant surprise. And I'll be honest with you, I was doing an interview, and the band was next door rehearsing without me, and I could hear the bleed coming through the wall while I was speaking to the journalist, and they went into 'Tormentor', and I I heard that song, and remember what I was just saying a second ago about you never get to hear something for the first time when you're the one that creates it? Well, it took forty years, but I got to hear that song for the first time that day. I heard it in a way I'd never heard it before and I listened to what was coming through the wall, and was like; "oh, shit, listen to this!". I mean, it blew me away, and I'm speaking now as if it was somebody else that made that record, because it was, so when you do that, you get your eyes open in a way that... It's an eye opening experience, let's just put it that way.
It's interesting that you mention 'Tormentor', because that song is so important in the band's history; it's one of the first W.A.S.P. songs that the public heard.
Well, it's from that first album, but that song was written before the first album was ever done. That's how it ended up in that movie ['The Dungeonmaster', 1984]. It was one of the gems that we had early on, and it wasn't until we rehearsed that thing - this must have been eighteen months ago, I guess - we were doing it, and and I heard them in the room next to me, and I heard what was coming through the wall, it was like; "oh, listen to this!" I mean, I know that sounds naïve beyond belief, but sometimes you have to remove yourself from something for a while to be able to hear it with fresh ears again.
A song you wont be playing on this tour is 'Cries in the Night', which evolved from an old song called 'Mr. Cool'; why was that rewritten and changed?
Well first of all, that song had a long, sordid history. I wrote it when I was 18. We recorded it in the band Killer Kane, and Arthur [Kane] did a deal that he ended up suing me over, and he had absolutely nothing to do with that song, but he found an ambulance chasing lawyer that took on the case and decided to sue me for a million dollars, which they didn't get. But, it's that kind of stuff, and also, additionally to that, all songwriters have songs that they may have early on in their career. To give you an example, 'The Titanic Overture' from 'The Crimson Idol' started out when Chris [Holmes] and I had that band Sister. Early on, it was a song called 'What I Am', and it morphed into what became, eventually, 'The Titanic Overture'. So all song writers are going to have things like that in their little toolbox rattling around that maybe they use early on, and they don't really do anything with them, but they look back at them later and they go; "okay, tweak this a little here, and a little there", and then, you know, maybe it'll be ready.
Well, I'll be honest, when we first came up with the idea a couple years ago, I wasn't sure how well it would be received, and I've been more than pleasantly surprised. You know, being on the inside, it's always hard to tell; you never really know how the world is going to react, but the reaction has been even greater than we had hoped, so it's been really terrific.
It's only the second time that you've ever performed an album whole, the other being 'The Crimson Idol'. They're obviously very different albums; is the approach the same, or do you have to get in a different headspace?
I don't know if the headspace is any different, but what was different was, I was not convinced, and you might laugh when you hear this, but I was not at all convinced that this album could stand on its own. The reason being is because after you have a number of albums in your in your catalogue, when you go out and you do a show, effectively, you're doing a 'best of' set, and so you get to cherry pick the best from all those records, and it's very hard for a single album to stand up against something like that. It's been forty years since we've done this record in its entirety, and I just didn't know if it would work well or not. So we took it in rehearsal, and we tried it, and it was okay, and I thought; "okay, I think we've got something", but it wasn't until we got in front of people that I saw their reaction, and I went; "oh, we've got a huge fish on the hook here!"
The first W.A.S.P. album is regarded as an out and out classic.
You might think, well, how come I didn't understand it? Listen; when you're on the inside of the bubble, you never see what the world sees. You're insulated, you're sheltered, and you just you never see it. I mean, think about some album you listen to when you were growing up that really had a life-altering effect on you; you remember where you were at that moment, you remember the setting, you remember who you were with, all those things. You remember all of that when you think back on that record the rest of your life, but when you're the person that makes that record, you never have that opportunity to hear it for the first time. You hear it in little increments when it's being made, but you never really get to have that one moment where you go; "oh shit", and you realise you're listening to not just greatness; but life-altering greatness, social changing greatness, that kind of thing. You never get that moment when you're the person that does it.
That's an interesting way to put it.
You get robbed of that, but at the same time, you get other things that the public will never see, because when you're the one in the studio making it, you're there when those little moments of magic are born, and that's something the world will never experience. You were there when it was being created, so there's trade offs, but the concept of hearing an album in its entirety for the first time to be able to sit down and and savour something like that, those are very, very special moments. And again, when you're the one that does it, you never really get to experience that.
There's some tracks that haven't been performed in years; what is it like going back and playing something like 'The Flame' and 'The Torture Never Stops'? Were there cobwebs to dust off?
Well, we went into rehearsal to try it first because we didn't want to make an announcement and then, after the announcement, go into rehearsal and go; "oh, this isn't working", but it was a pleasant surprise. And I'll be honest with you, I was doing an interview, and the band was next door rehearsing without me, and I could hear the bleed coming through the wall while I was speaking to the journalist, and they went into 'Tormentor', and I I heard that song, and remember what I was just saying a second ago about you never get to hear something for the first time when you're the one that creates it? Well, it took forty years, but I got to hear that song for the first time that day. I heard it in a way I'd never heard it before and I listened to what was coming through the wall, and was like; "oh, shit, listen to this!". I mean, it blew me away, and I'm speaking now as if it was somebody else that made that record, because it was, so when you do that, you get your eyes open in a way that... It's an eye opening experience, let's just put it that way.
It's interesting that you mention 'Tormentor', because that song is so important in the band's history; it's one of the first W.A.S.P. songs that the public heard.
Well, it's from that first album, but that song was written before the first album was ever done. That's how it ended up in that movie ['The Dungeonmaster', 1984]. It was one of the gems that we had early on, and it wasn't until we rehearsed that thing - this must have been eighteen months ago, I guess - we were doing it, and and I heard them in the room next to me, and I heard what was coming through the wall, it was like; "oh, listen to this!" I mean, I know that sounds naïve beyond belief, but sometimes you have to remove yourself from something for a while to be able to hear it with fresh ears again.
A song you wont be playing on this tour is 'Cries in the Night', which evolved from an old song called 'Mr. Cool'; why was that rewritten and changed?
Well first of all, that song had a long, sordid history. I wrote it when I was 18. We recorded it in the band Killer Kane, and Arthur [Kane] did a deal that he ended up suing me over, and he had absolutely nothing to do with that song, but he found an ambulance chasing lawyer that took on the case and decided to sue me for a million dollars, which they didn't get. But, it's that kind of stuff, and also, additionally to that, all songwriters have songs that they may have early on in their career. To give you an example, 'The Titanic Overture' from 'The Crimson Idol' started out when Chris [Holmes] and I had that band Sister. Early on, it was a song called 'What I Am', and it morphed into what became, eventually, 'The Titanic Overture'. So all song writers are going to have things like that in their little toolbox rattling around that maybe they use early on, and they don't really do anything with them, but they look back at them later and they go; "okay, tweak this a little here, and a little there", and then, you know, maybe it'll be ready.
'The Headless Children' [1989] marked a big change from. let's call it theatrical shock rock, into something a little bit more harder edged. What are your feelings on that album looking back to that period?
Well, you have to to understand where 'Headless' came from. You have to look at the history of the band. We had gone through a period where we had been on the road, effectively, for about four years prior to that, and when we came off that initial run, we didn't know who we were anymore. You have to really remove yourself from touring to really look around and say; "who am I?", you know; "what am I thinking, what am I feeling?", because if you don't, you're just going to continue to churn out the same stuff you've been doing. And no one can really do that honestly, because whatever record you made five years before that, you're not the same person anymore. I don't care what you say or what you do; you change, you grow, you evolve, every artist does. And so when I got into 'Headless', I started looking at what was coming out, and I was amazed at my own self as to see how much I had changed and my thoughts on world politics, you name it.
So 'The Headless Children' was a natural evolution?
Everything had been evolving at that point, but when you're on tour, you don't have time to think about that stuff. I mean, you're subconsciously thinking about it all the time, but consciously, you're not really aware of of how you're changing and evolving. It's not until you have a little distance where you can stop and catch your breath, and it took me about six months, really to let the dust settle. Then that writing process started, and I started looking at what was coming out of me, and it was like; "whoa, look at this". I mean, I dreamt [the song] 'Headless', complete with lyrics. A lot of songwriters dream songs, that's pretty common, because they say; "once a writer, always a writer"; you know, you're writing, whether you're conscious of it or not. You're still writing subconsciously, so when you dream them, it's stuff that's been percolating in your head for who knows how long. So when those things come pouring out, that really gives you a pretty good indication as to what you're thinking at the moment, and when you've done it long enough, you learn not to question those things; you just, you go with it, whatever it is. You get on that train and you ride it as long as you can.
That produced some incredible results.
I would also say there's a little acoustic thing called 'The Mephisto Waltz', and I wrote 'The Mephisto Waltz' probably ten, twelve years before that, long before W.A.S.P. But again, all songwriters do that. They're going to have little nuggets and things like that that don't appear a lot of times until later on down the line.
As we speak, it's thirty-six years almost to the day that 'The Real Me' was released as a single; you were a massive Who fan, so what was it like covering that?
When the record came out, it did really well. I mean, really well. It went gold the first week, and when it went gold, The Who had started touring for Tommy in '89, and they were playing Radio City in New York. I went to the show, and I gave Pete [Townshend] his gold album, or his gold disc after the show, and we talked for a while afterwards. We talked about song writing and just general kind of things, but he paid me probably the biggest compliment I've ever had, he said to me; "it must have taken a lot of courage to remake this song", and I knew what he meant immediately when he said that, because The Who in their prime were this freight train out of control, and it takes a group of really serious musicians to take on a task like that. He followed it up by saying; "but I'll say this, there's been a lot of people do remakes of my songs, but no one has ever done to one of my songs what you've done". Well, I was walking on cloud nine after that. I mean, here's a guy that was a major influence over me, turning around and handing me back this compliment for something that I had done to one of his songs. So I don't know if it gets any better than that.
You worked with Ken Hensley on that album, and he was another hero of yours. His Hammonds really add texture; what was it like working with him?
Well, Ken was great, and Ken had his own thing, and I don't say that lightly. I mean, he had literally had his own sound, and he had a thing that he did with the his settings on the [Hammond] B3s that we went into rehearsal and the first day he hit that first couple of chords on that Hammond organ, it was him. It was as distinctive as a vocalist, you know, it would be like some vocalist you've been listening to all your life, and they walk up to the microphone and start singing and go; "oh shit", you know? Well, that's what happened when Ken would start to play, and the rig that I have now, as a matter of fact, him and I went together and bought it. We had to scavenge the Leslie speaker that goes with it. We went to a separate place and bought that, but he had little modifications that he did on his equipment that gave him his signature sound. I still have that rig to this day, and when you listen to the records today, when you hear the the organ on any of the tracks we do, that's Ken sound.
Well, you have to to understand where 'Headless' came from. You have to look at the history of the band. We had gone through a period where we had been on the road, effectively, for about four years prior to that, and when we came off that initial run, we didn't know who we were anymore. You have to really remove yourself from touring to really look around and say; "who am I?", you know; "what am I thinking, what am I feeling?", because if you don't, you're just going to continue to churn out the same stuff you've been doing. And no one can really do that honestly, because whatever record you made five years before that, you're not the same person anymore. I don't care what you say or what you do; you change, you grow, you evolve, every artist does. And so when I got into 'Headless', I started looking at what was coming out, and I was amazed at my own self as to see how much I had changed and my thoughts on world politics, you name it.
So 'The Headless Children' was a natural evolution?
Everything had been evolving at that point, but when you're on tour, you don't have time to think about that stuff. I mean, you're subconsciously thinking about it all the time, but consciously, you're not really aware of of how you're changing and evolving. It's not until you have a little distance where you can stop and catch your breath, and it took me about six months, really to let the dust settle. Then that writing process started, and I started looking at what was coming out of me, and it was like; "whoa, look at this". I mean, I dreamt [the song] 'Headless', complete with lyrics. A lot of songwriters dream songs, that's pretty common, because they say; "once a writer, always a writer"; you know, you're writing, whether you're conscious of it or not. You're still writing subconsciously, so when you dream them, it's stuff that's been percolating in your head for who knows how long. So when those things come pouring out, that really gives you a pretty good indication as to what you're thinking at the moment, and when you've done it long enough, you learn not to question those things; you just, you go with it, whatever it is. You get on that train and you ride it as long as you can.
That produced some incredible results.
I would also say there's a little acoustic thing called 'The Mephisto Waltz', and I wrote 'The Mephisto Waltz' probably ten, twelve years before that, long before W.A.S.P. But again, all songwriters do that. They're going to have little nuggets and things like that that don't appear a lot of times until later on down the line.
As we speak, it's thirty-six years almost to the day that 'The Real Me' was released as a single; you were a massive Who fan, so what was it like covering that?
When the record came out, it did really well. I mean, really well. It went gold the first week, and when it went gold, The Who had started touring for Tommy in '89, and they were playing Radio City in New York. I went to the show, and I gave Pete [Townshend] his gold album, or his gold disc after the show, and we talked for a while afterwards. We talked about song writing and just general kind of things, but he paid me probably the biggest compliment I've ever had, he said to me; "it must have taken a lot of courage to remake this song", and I knew what he meant immediately when he said that, because The Who in their prime were this freight train out of control, and it takes a group of really serious musicians to take on a task like that. He followed it up by saying; "but I'll say this, there's been a lot of people do remakes of my songs, but no one has ever done to one of my songs what you've done". Well, I was walking on cloud nine after that. I mean, here's a guy that was a major influence over me, turning around and handing me back this compliment for something that I had done to one of his songs. So I don't know if it gets any better than that.
You worked with Ken Hensley on that album, and he was another hero of yours. His Hammonds really add texture; what was it like working with him?
Well, Ken was great, and Ken had his own thing, and I don't say that lightly. I mean, he had literally had his own sound, and he had a thing that he did with the his settings on the [Hammond] B3s that we went into rehearsal and the first day he hit that first couple of chords on that Hammond organ, it was him. It was as distinctive as a vocalist, you know, it would be like some vocalist you've been listening to all your life, and they walk up to the microphone and start singing and go; "oh shit", you know? Well, that's what happened when Ken would start to play, and the rig that I have now, as a matter of fact, him and I went together and bought it. We had to scavenge the Leslie speaker that goes with it. We went to a separate place and bought that, but he had little modifications that he did on his equipment that gave him his signature sound. I still have that rig to this day, and when you listen to the records today, when you hear the the organ on any of the tracks we do, that's Ken sound.
Moving forward and there was a three year gap between 'The Headless Children' and 'The Crimson Idol' [1992]. By then, grunge had taken over; was that a difficult time to be releasing your grand masterpiece?
Well, the timing is everything right? I remember from the time I started recording that record to the time I had done the promo and done, literally, two world tours to support it, by the time it was all said and done, it was about a four year process, and I came home, and it was early '93, and I remember I picked up Billboard magazine, and I was looking at the Hot 100 singles, and in that list of 100 singles, there was myself with 'Hold on to Your Heart', Sammy Hagar had a song, and Mötley had a song. The other ninety-seven artists, I did not recognise one of the names, not a single one, and that stunned me because I thought there's been some sort of seismic shift that has happened in the time since I started making that record.
So you noticed the sea change?
You talk about being in a bubble? I mean, when I was making that record, I was totally. Most records I make, I isolate myself away; I did it with 'Headless', and I certainly did it with 'The Idol'. I'm like a hermit, and so when I come out from being in my cave for so long, a lot of times, there's been some significant changes. I'm like a man that's been on a desert island for a few years; I am totally unaware of it until I come back into society. I mean, I really do bury myself that deeply when I make records. I didn't know exactly what it was, but I knew something radically had changed, because when I started that record, if I looked at the hot 100 on Billboard, it didn't look anything like that, and when I came back in early '93 and I looked at that same chart list, it was unrecognisable. Like I said, there was only three artists, and I was one of them that was on it, so it was like; let's just take me for a second and just kind of cross me off the list; so there's only two other artists on there that I know, I don't know any of the rest of them, and that was real eye opening.
'Still Not Black Enough' followed in 1995, on Sanctuary; was that a shock to no longer be with the major label?
Well, EMI as a whole had changed all their upper level management, and there was no one there that we knew anymore, and so we effectively lobbied to get off the label and they finally let us go. We had to bend over backwards to give them rights for our records for ten years after that, but at least they let me go to make records at that point. So that's why we went with Sanctuary at that point, which was effectively our own label. But it's one of those kind of things that, no one's career is going to be on top forever, it's not going to be on the bottom forever. It's like a roller coaster; you're going to go up, down, up, down, and depending on whatever is happening socially or musically at that point, and there was a seismic shift going on.
So it was a time of change in the music industry,
There was another seismic shift that was getting ready to happen a few years after that with Napster, and that blew everyone out of the water. So, Napster giveth and taketh away at the same time, and one thing it did do, and as much as I hate it, Napster killed new music, because when we were growing up, if you wanted a record, you had to save your money, your lunch money, you had to work little jobs, whatever you did, you had to save that money, and then you went down to the local record shop and of the ten albums that you wanted to buy at the time, that was an agonising decision to choose only one. So there was the artists that had their sweat equity into the making of their record, but the consumer or the fan, they also had sweat equity in the money that they paid for the music, so there was an equal exchange between the artists and the fans. Nowadays you don't have that with streaming; it's like walking over to a water faucet; you turn on the faucet, and it's an unlimited supply. It no longer has value, and when that happened, it killed new music as we know.
But at the same time, what it did, inadvertently, is it preserved the music from the '60s, '70s and the '80s, and it solidified that music. I mean, when you look at a television commercial now that that has contemporary music in it, where do those songs come from? I mean, think about those commercials; it's all either from the '70s or the '80s, because there is no more new music coming that a large audience can identify with. So because of that, it's given us the ability to continue to play live because the quality of the songs - and I don't mean just us, I'm talking about all artists that came out of the that time period - if they had quality songs, they're going to be able to continue to play live for a long time. So like I said there, the good part with Napster is that it created a touring world that we could not have foreseen, because if new music would have been able to continue to be made, something new would probably have come along and replaced this all, but that's not happened, and it's not going to happen. So the great quality music that came out of the '70s and the '80s, that's all you have now, and when we're gone, I hate to think what the musical landscape is going to look like.
Well, the timing is everything right? I remember from the time I started recording that record to the time I had done the promo and done, literally, two world tours to support it, by the time it was all said and done, it was about a four year process, and I came home, and it was early '93, and I remember I picked up Billboard magazine, and I was looking at the Hot 100 singles, and in that list of 100 singles, there was myself with 'Hold on to Your Heart', Sammy Hagar had a song, and Mötley had a song. The other ninety-seven artists, I did not recognise one of the names, not a single one, and that stunned me because I thought there's been some sort of seismic shift that has happened in the time since I started making that record.
So you noticed the sea change?
You talk about being in a bubble? I mean, when I was making that record, I was totally. Most records I make, I isolate myself away; I did it with 'Headless', and I certainly did it with 'The Idol'. I'm like a hermit, and so when I come out from being in my cave for so long, a lot of times, there's been some significant changes. I'm like a man that's been on a desert island for a few years; I am totally unaware of it until I come back into society. I mean, I really do bury myself that deeply when I make records. I didn't know exactly what it was, but I knew something radically had changed, because when I started that record, if I looked at the hot 100 on Billboard, it didn't look anything like that, and when I came back in early '93 and I looked at that same chart list, it was unrecognisable. Like I said, there was only three artists, and I was one of them that was on it, so it was like; let's just take me for a second and just kind of cross me off the list; so there's only two other artists on there that I know, I don't know any of the rest of them, and that was real eye opening.
'Still Not Black Enough' followed in 1995, on Sanctuary; was that a shock to no longer be with the major label?
Well, EMI as a whole had changed all their upper level management, and there was no one there that we knew anymore, and so we effectively lobbied to get off the label and they finally let us go. We had to bend over backwards to give them rights for our records for ten years after that, but at least they let me go to make records at that point. So that's why we went with Sanctuary at that point, which was effectively our own label. But it's one of those kind of things that, no one's career is going to be on top forever, it's not going to be on the bottom forever. It's like a roller coaster; you're going to go up, down, up, down, and depending on whatever is happening socially or musically at that point, and there was a seismic shift going on.
So it was a time of change in the music industry,
There was another seismic shift that was getting ready to happen a few years after that with Napster, and that blew everyone out of the water. So, Napster giveth and taketh away at the same time, and one thing it did do, and as much as I hate it, Napster killed new music, because when we were growing up, if you wanted a record, you had to save your money, your lunch money, you had to work little jobs, whatever you did, you had to save that money, and then you went down to the local record shop and of the ten albums that you wanted to buy at the time, that was an agonising decision to choose only one. So there was the artists that had their sweat equity into the making of their record, but the consumer or the fan, they also had sweat equity in the money that they paid for the music, so there was an equal exchange between the artists and the fans. Nowadays you don't have that with streaming; it's like walking over to a water faucet; you turn on the faucet, and it's an unlimited supply. It no longer has value, and when that happened, it killed new music as we know.
But at the same time, what it did, inadvertently, is it preserved the music from the '60s, '70s and the '80s, and it solidified that music. I mean, when you look at a television commercial now that that has contemporary music in it, where do those songs come from? I mean, think about those commercials; it's all either from the '70s or the '80s, because there is no more new music coming that a large audience can identify with. So because of that, it's given us the ability to continue to play live because the quality of the songs - and I don't mean just us, I'm talking about all artists that came out of the that time period - if they had quality songs, they're going to be able to continue to play live for a long time. So like I said there, the good part with Napster is that it created a touring world that we could not have foreseen, because if new music would have been able to continue to be made, something new would probably have come along and replaced this all, but that's not happened, and it's not going to happen. So the great quality music that came out of the '70s and the '80s, that's all you have now, and when we're gone, I hate to think what the musical landscape is going to look like.
I wanted to touch on the controversial 'KFD' [1997] album, where you were out-Mansoning Manson; how does it feel to look back on that, because even musically, it was a shock, not just aesthetically.
Well, I would say throughout the history of my career, that's the most creative record I've ever made. The imagery of that record is pretty remarkable. I can talk about it now as it's been so long, I can look at it with with a more objective perspective, and I see it as if it was someone else; like some other artists that had done it, and I listened to it, and, like I said, I look at the lyrical imagery of it, and it's pretty it's pretty amazing. I mean, like I said, I think it's far and away the most creative record I was ever part of.
'Hellorado' [1999] which followed also that came in for a bit of a hard time. It was almost seen as an over correction; was it a case of 'you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't'?
Well, you are correct in that sense. What you do is you make records that reflect who you are at the moment. You don't try to follow any trends, you just say; "who am I?" I mean, the same way I wrote 'Headless', same way I wrote the first album, it's like; who are you at that moment in your life? And if you capture that, they're little snapshots in your life, and if you're successful in capturing those, then you will. So if the world sees it as an over correction, okay, fine, but you know, 'KFD' was a very, very dark record, and if that's what it takes to create that kind of artistry, I don't want to do it again, because to have have to go to that space and live there for the year that it takes to make that record? No, I don't want to go back there again. So 'Helldorado' was a rebellion, if you like, against what we had just gone through. It's like we don't want to go back to that place, we don't want to go back inside that pit, it's like; "we're out, we're going to have a celebration", and so that's really what 'Helldorado' was; it was a celebration of getting your freedom back, getting your life back.
Bringing things back to the current times, and it's great to see in your recent live set that you have played 'Forever Free'; will that remain in the set for the European dates?
Yeah, it's a little 'Headless' medley that we do in the second part of the show. It starts out with 'The Real Me', and then 'Forever Free' and 'Headless'.
It's great that the title track is part of that. I was listening to that song again with fresh ears, and it was like, they're marching towards their doom, you know, the; "father, come save us..." line; is that what you were trying to capture with that?
Well, it was a Saturday afternoon, about five thirty in the afternoon when I wrote that, and I was laying on couch in the living room, and I was just about to doze off, falling asleep, and they always say you're at your most creative when you're either in an alpha or a beta state, because that's where the conscious starts to relax and the subconscious starts to come out. And just as I was dozing off, I heard; "father come save us from this madness we're under"; I mean, it was there complete with lyrics. And I've had enough experience as a songwriter to know that you don't just lay there and say; "oh, I'll write it down when I wake up"; no, you get up right then and do it, because if you don't, it's going to be gone. And I made myself get up, and I'm glad I did, because that was the end result of it.
Finally, it's been ten years since 'Golgotha'; you're a creative guy, we know that from this conversation, so there's got to be some music in the can or rattling around the head. What's happening?
Well, we were working on stuff a couple of years ago during COVID and then we did the European tour two years ago, and the whole thing happened where I broke my back. It was just one catastrophe after another, so the whole idea of recording at that point just got pushed way on the back burner, and we've been touring ever since. So yes, there are ideas rattling around, but you know, when you could suspect to see it, I really couldn't say. Until then, I'm working on a book too, so it's like, you know, I've been kind of busy.
Is that your autobiography?
Yeah.
When can we see that?
Well, it's about halfway done now, and I'm hoping sometime next year.
Catch W.A.S.P. on the following dates in 2025.
06/07 Berlin, GERMANY - Astra
06/10 Vaureal, FRANCE - Le Forum - SOLD OUT
06/11 Eindhoven, NETHERLANDS - Effenaar
06/12 Luxembourg, LUXEMBOURG - Rockhal
06/13 Wiesbaden, GERMANY - Schlachthof
07/11 Belgrade, SERBIA - Hangar Luka Beograd
07/16 Milan, ITALY - Live Club
07/20 Norwich, ENGLAND - UEA
07/22 Dublin, IRELAND - National Stadium
07/23 Belfast, N. IRELAND - Telegraph Building
07/25 Glasgow, SCOTLAND - Academy
07/27 Nottingham, ENGLAND - Rock City
07/29 Riddes, SWITZERLAND - Salle de l'Abeille - SOLD OUT
07/30 Zurich, SWITZERLAND - Komplex
08/03 Munich, GERMANY - Backstage
08/04 Stuttgart, GERMANY - Longhorn
9/26 Newcastle, ENGLAND - Newcastle O2 City Hall *
9/27 Manchester, ENGLAND - O2 Victoria Warehouse *
9/28 London, ENGLAND - Hammersmith *
10/01 Hamburg, GERMANY - Docks
10/03 Prague, CZECH REPUBLIC - Lucerna
10/06 Copenhagen, DENMARK - Amager Bio
10/07 Oslo, NORWAY - Rockefeller
10/08 Lund, SWEDEN - Mejeriet
10/10 Gothenburg, SWEDEN - Filmstudion
10/11 Örebro, SWEDEN - Conventum Kongress
10/12 Stockholm, SWEDEN - Fållan
10/14 Falun, SWEDEN - Heymakers
10/15 Östersund, SWEDEN - Folkets Hus
10/17 Oulu, FINLAND - Tullisali
10/18 Helsinki, FINLAND - House Of Culture
10/19 Tampere, FINLAND - Tavara-asema
10/21 Tallinn, ESTONIA - Helitehas
10/25 Zilina, SLOVAKIA - Event House
*Support Act - Armored Saint
Festival Shows Performing Greatest Hits
06/06 Mystic Festival - POLAND
06/08 Rock Hard Festival - GERMANY
06/14 Into The Grave - NETHERLANDS
07/10 Area 53 Festival - AUSTRIA
07/12 Midalidare Open Air - BULGARIA
07/14 Rockwave Festival - GREECE
07/18 Sun And Thunder Festival - SPAIN
07/26 Steelhouse Festival - WALES
08/01 Skogsröjet Festival - SWEDEN
08/02 Wacken Open Air - GERMANY - SOLD OUT
08/06 Leyendas del Rock Festival- SPAIN
08/08 Alcatraz Festival - BELGIUM
Well, I would say throughout the history of my career, that's the most creative record I've ever made. The imagery of that record is pretty remarkable. I can talk about it now as it's been so long, I can look at it with with a more objective perspective, and I see it as if it was someone else; like some other artists that had done it, and I listened to it, and, like I said, I look at the lyrical imagery of it, and it's pretty it's pretty amazing. I mean, like I said, I think it's far and away the most creative record I was ever part of.
'Hellorado' [1999] which followed also that came in for a bit of a hard time. It was almost seen as an over correction; was it a case of 'you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't'?
Well, you are correct in that sense. What you do is you make records that reflect who you are at the moment. You don't try to follow any trends, you just say; "who am I?" I mean, the same way I wrote 'Headless', same way I wrote the first album, it's like; who are you at that moment in your life? And if you capture that, they're little snapshots in your life, and if you're successful in capturing those, then you will. So if the world sees it as an over correction, okay, fine, but you know, 'KFD' was a very, very dark record, and if that's what it takes to create that kind of artistry, I don't want to do it again, because to have have to go to that space and live there for the year that it takes to make that record? No, I don't want to go back there again. So 'Helldorado' was a rebellion, if you like, against what we had just gone through. It's like we don't want to go back to that place, we don't want to go back inside that pit, it's like; "we're out, we're going to have a celebration", and so that's really what 'Helldorado' was; it was a celebration of getting your freedom back, getting your life back.
Bringing things back to the current times, and it's great to see in your recent live set that you have played 'Forever Free'; will that remain in the set for the European dates?
Yeah, it's a little 'Headless' medley that we do in the second part of the show. It starts out with 'The Real Me', and then 'Forever Free' and 'Headless'.
It's great that the title track is part of that. I was listening to that song again with fresh ears, and it was like, they're marching towards their doom, you know, the; "father, come save us..." line; is that what you were trying to capture with that?
Well, it was a Saturday afternoon, about five thirty in the afternoon when I wrote that, and I was laying on couch in the living room, and I was just about to doze off, falling asleep, and they always say you're at your most creative when you're either in an alpha or a beta state, because that's where the conscious starts to relax and the subconscious starts to come out. And just as I was dozing off, I heard; "father come save us from this madness we're under"; I mean, it was there complete with lyrics. And I've had enough experience as a songwriter to know that you don't just lay there and say; "oh, I'll write it down when I wake up"; no, you get up right then and do it, because if you don't, it's going to be gone. And I made myself get up, and I'm glad I did, because that was the end result of it.
Finally, it's been ten years since 'Golgotha'; you're a creative guy, we know that from this conversation, so there's got to be some music in the can or rattling around the head. What's happening?
Well, we were working on stuff a couple of years ago during COVID and then we did the European tour two years ago, and the whole thing happened where I broke my back. It was just one catastrophe after another, so the whole idea of recording at that point just got pushed way on the back burner, and we've been touring ever since. So yes, there are ideas rattling around, but you know, when you could suspect to see it, I really couldn't say. Until then, I'm working on a book too, so it's like, you know, I've been kind of busy.
Is that your autobiography?
Yeah.
When can we see that?
Well, it's about halfway done now, and I'm hoping sometime next year.
Catch W.A.S.P. on the following dates in 2025.
06/07 Berlin, GERMANY - Astra
06/10 Vaureal, FRANCE - Le Forum - SOLD OUT
06/11 Eindhoven, NETHERLANDS - Effenaar
06/12 Luxembourg, LUXEMBOURG - Rockhal
06/13 Wiesbaden, GERMANY - Schlachthof
07/11 Belgrade, SERBIA - Hangar Luka Beograd
07/16 Milan, ITALY - Live Club
07/20 Norwich, ENGLAND - UEA
07/22 Dublin, IRELAND - National Stadium
07/23 Belfast, N. IRELAND - Telegraph Building
07/25 Glasgow, SCOTLAND - Academy
07/27 Nottingham, ENGLAND - Rock City
07/29 Riddes, SWITZERLAND - Salle de l'Abeille - SOLD OUT
07/30 Zurich, SWITZERLAND - Komplex
08/03 Munich, GERMANY - Backstage
08/04 Stuttgart, GERMANY - Longhorn
9/26 Newcastle, ENGLAND - Newcastle O2 City Hall *
9/27 Manchester, ENGLAND - O2 Victoria Warehouse *
9/28 London, ENGLAND - Hammersmith *
10/01 Hamburg, GERMANY - Docks
10/03 Prague, CZECH REPUBLIC - Lucerna
10/06 Copenhagen, DENMARK - Amager Bio
10/07 Oslo, NORWAY - Rockefeller
10/08 Lund, SWEDEN - Mejeriet
10/10 Gothenburg, SWEDEN - Filmstudion
10/11 Örebro, SWEDEN - Conventum Kongress
10/12 Stockholm, SWEDEN - Fållan
10/14 Falun, SWEDEN - Heymakers
10/15 Östersund, SWEDEN - Folkets Hus
10/17 Oulu, FINLAND - Tullisali
10/18 Helsinki, FINLAND - House Of Culture
10/19 Tampere, FINLAND - Tavara-asema
10/21 Tallinn, ESTONIA - Helitehas
10/25 Zilina, SLOVAKIA - Event House
*Support Act - Armored Saint
Festival Shows Performing Greatest Hits
06/06 Mystic Festival - POLAND
06/08 Rock Hard Festival - GERMANY
06/14 Into The Grave - NETHERLANDS
07/10 Area 53 Festival - AUSTRIA
07/12 Midalidare Open Air - BULGARIA
07/14 Rockwave Festival - GREECE
07/18 Sun And Thunder Festival - SPAIN
07/26 Steelhouse Festival - WALES
08/01 Skogsröjet Festival - SWEDEN
08/02 Wacken Open Air - GERMANY - SOLD OUT
08/06 Leyendas del Rock Festival- SPAIN
08/08 Alcatraz Festival - BELGIUM
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