Billy Ocean is a musical treasure. Decorated for his work with an MBE, a Lifetime Achievement Award from MOBO, an Oscar, and countless other accolades, the Trinidadian-born British singer and songwriter has more than made his mark on music. Scoring his biggest hits in the 1980s, he's preparing to hit the stage at this summer's celebration of that most colourful decade, Rewind Festival. Talking his fascinating career, recording with one of rock's biggest producers, and working with some of the world's biggest movie stars, we sat down with Billy for a chat. On the run; Eamon O'Neill.
Photo: Press.
Hi Billy, how are you doing today?
Yeah, I'm fine, thank you very much. You know, I woke up this morning, I'm alive seeing the day, so good times!!
In 1986 I'd have been a child, dancing around the living room to your songs. You're doing Rewind Festival once more, and I can't be the only person to have told you that.
It's good, more than anything in the sense that, you say 1986, but don't forget, I've been in the wicket since 1976 with 'Love Really Hurts Without You', so at this stage, we're now in 2024, and to be still appreciated and be invited to do something like that, I think it's a great achievement. I've survived the madness of the music business; I'm still around to entertain and give people what they want to hear.
Are you happy to be associated with all things '80s? As you quite rightly say you had your first hit in 1976.
Yes, absolutely. When I go out and do the shows, I do all the hits. A lot of artists go out and they want to give the audience a new song that the audience never came to hear; they want to hear the songs that they can associate with. It doesn't matter how old the songs are; that's what they want to hear, that's what they came for.
Do you still enjoy performing them yourself?
Yeah, fortunately, I do because, listen, man, I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of these songs, in fact, I enjoy all the songs, and I think I'm not the only artist like that. Music comes from the heart, number one, and number two, even up to now I still enjoy it. I really enjoy writing the song, going into the studio, recording, and the delight in the whole thing is when you come out with something good, and you put your heart and soul into it. And you can tell, you know? The joy comes out in music; you can hear the joy in the music, and to me, that's what it's all about.
It all started with 'Love Really Hurts Without You'; talk to me about the construction of that song?
Let me tell you about that song, and this is the truth. I left school and I used to work at the rag trade, literally two minutes away from where I lived. This was after I joined the band called Shades of Midnight, then we went into Dryer - all these different names - anyway, while I was working in the rag trade, there was a woman called Jean who was refurbishing the house, and she had a piano she wanted to get rid of. I learned piano at school; we used to have music lessons and things, and I learned a little bit about the piano, and I taught myself the rest. So when I got the piano from her, I was so excited, because I lived that close to where I worked, and at lunchtime I used to go home and tinkle on my piano. I couldn't wait to get home!
So you were inspired!
Exactly, and one day, I sat at the piano, and my left hand went [sings intro riff from 'Love Really Hurts Without You']. In them days I used to listen to American music that just started coming over in a big way, and my left hand went; "doom doom doo doo doo doo doo", and my right hand went; [sings chords], and my voice went; "You run around town like a fool..." The nice thing is, I recognised that it was something that I never knew was going to be a hit, but I recognised it as being something nice. I stuck with it until over a period of time, I used to do a lot of sessions for different producers, singing their songs and things, but some of the songs were so half-dead with no life in them, that one day I presented this song to a producer that I used to demos and things for. I played him the song and he liked it, and he helped me finish it off. There was not much to do, really, but as far as I'm concerned, the opportunity to have my song recorded was worth anything; my god, that was like the biggest dream for me! So we recorded the song, and next thing I know, the record is number two.
You mentioned that riff with left hand, and as soon as you hear those notes, you know what's coming; it's a real earworm.
Yeah, it's a riff, exactly. I mean, to me, music is a mystery, and it always will be, and it's still a mystery. Where does it come from? When you think of all the millions of songs written, but look, check this; they're almost all different. Now and again, you find you're thinking; "that sounds a bit like that", but really, in general, you're talking about millions of songs, and they're all different. That's a mystery. It's beautiful, so that's why I said music, to me, is not to be messed around with; it's a spiritual thing.
Yeah, I'm fine, thank you very much. You know, I woke up this morning, I'm alive seeing the day, so good times!!
In 1986 I'd have been a child, dancing around the living room to your songs. You're doing Rewind Festival once more, and I can't be the only person to have told you that.
It's good, more than anything in the sense that, you say 1986, but don't forget, I've been in the wicket since 1976 with 'Love Really Hurts Without You', so at this stage, we're now in 2024, and to be still appreciated and be invited to do something like that, I think it's a great achievement. I've survived the madness of the music business; I'm still around to entertain and give people what they want to hear.
Are you happy to be associated with all things '80s? As you quite rightly say you had your first hit in 1976.
Yes, absolutely. When I go out and do the shows, I do all the hits. A lot of artists go out and they want to give the audience a new song that the audience never came to hear; they want to hear the songs that they can associate with. It doesn't matter how old the songs are; that's what they want to hear, that's what they came for.
Do you still enjoy performing them yourself?
Yeah, fortunately, I do because, listen, man, I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of these songs, in fact, I enjoy all the songs, and I think I'm not the only artist like that. Music comes from the heart, number one, and number two, even up to now I still enjoy it. I really enjoy writing the song, going into the studio, recording, and the delight in the whole thing is when you come out with something good, and you put your heart and soul into it. And you can tell, you know? The joy comes out in music; you can hear the joy in the music, and to me, that's what it's all about.
It all started with 'Love Really Hurts Without You'; talk to me about the construction of that song?
Let me tell you about that song, and this is the truth. I left school and I used to work at the rag trade, literally two minutes away from where I lived. This was after I joined the band called Shades of Midnight, then we went into Dryer - all these different names - anyway, while I was working in the rag trade, there was a woman called Jean who was refurbishing the house, and she had a piano she wanted to get rid of. I learned piano at school; we used to have music lessons and things, and I learned a little bit about the piano, and I taught myself the rest. So when I got the piano from her, I was so excited, because I lived that close to where I worked, and at lunchtime I used to go home and tinkle on my piano. I couldn't wait to get home!
So you were inspired!
Exactly, and one day, I sat at the piano, and my left hand went [sings intro riff from 'Love Really Hurts Without You']. In them days I used to listen to American music that just started coming over in a big way, and my left hand went; "doom doom doo doo doo doo doo", and my right hand went; [sings chords], and my voice went; "You run around town like a fool..." The nice thing is, I recognised that it was something that I never knew was going to be a hit, but I recognised it as being something nice. I stuck with it until over a period of time, I used to do a lot of sessions for different producers, singing their songs and things, but some of the songs were so half-dead with no life in them, that one day I presented this song to a producer that I used to demos and things for. I played him the song and he liked it, and he helped me finish it off. There was not much to do, really, but as far as I'm concerned, the opportunity to have my song recorded was worth anything; my god, that was like the biggest dream for me! So we recorded the song, and next thing I know, the record is number two.
You mentioned that riff with left hand, and as soon as you hear those notes, you know what's coming; it's a real earworm.
Yeah, it's a riff, exactly. I mean, to me, music is a mystery, and it always will be, and it's still a mystery. Where does it come from? When you think of all the millions of songs written, but look, check this; they're almost all different. Now and again, you find you're thinking; "that sounds a bit like that", but really, in general, you're talking about millions of songs, and they're all different. That's a mystery. It's beautiful, so that's why I said music, to me, is not to be messed around with; it's a spiritual thing.
You scored an even bigger success in the 1980s, starting with 'Caribbean Queen (No More Love On The Run)' in 1984 which had a very different sound; how did feel about that?
Well, it was good because you don't want to stay in the same box, do you? Your here in the now, and I wanted to move on after 'Love Really Hurts' and things. I used to be with GTO [Records], and GTO sold out to CBS at the time. CBS was still wanting me to do things like 'Love Really Hurts', and that's why my relationship with them fell apart, because now I'm hearing really different music coming from America.
So that music inspired you to do something new?
Yeah. So I want to go to America, I want to work with American musicians, I want to make progress in the sort of music and things I create. I got that opportunity with a giant of guy, the owner of Jive [Records], Clive Calder. Then the connection with Ben Findon [producer of 'Love Really Hurts'] came into it, because I used to do demos for them, and Ben used to ship these demos. There used to be something in in France called Medium, and Medium was like a sort of music exhibition. People from all over the world would come and meet and and swap songs and buy songs, so Clive came from America to England, to sort of, you know, fulfil his dreams. He used to be a bass player in South Africa, and he set up a record company in his wisdom called Jive, and when he came, he was looking for me, thank God.
So Clive sought you out, and was instrumental in steering your new direction?
He heard the voice, he knew I was writing songs, etc, and he hooked me up with a producer and co-writer called Keith Diamond. Keith came and stayed by me, and we wrote two songs; one was 'Lucky Man', and the other one was 'Suddenly'. We played it to Clive, and Clive, he just opened up a whole new world. He said; "Billy, we're going to send you to America", and suddenly I was staying at the flat above the record company, on Lexington Avenue [New York City], and I used to use the flat as a sort of writing room, and we came up with 'Caribbean Queen', and that was it.
You make it sound so easy!
There's a lot of blessings in my life. I could have thanked the Lord for even, you know, some of these things you can't, The one thing I do know about music is, you have to like it first; if you write something, you have to like it first, and you have to before the people like it. If you like it, there's a chance that people can like it; if you don't like it, forget it, because no one else is going to like it.
What do you remember about the recording of the track?
We went into the studio called Unique in New York, and worked with people like Lisa Fischer [backing vocalist] , Wayne Bradford, Autry Wheeler. I mean, I was working at that time with top, top musicians in America. I didn't know that at the time, because, you know, for God's sake, I'm a boy from the East End of London, certainly thrown into the deep end! You work with people, and you give people respect. That's why it's good to respect who you meet, or whatever. Later on, I realised, and I learned that I was working with top notch musicians.
Well, it was good because you don't want to stay in the same box, do you? Your here in the now, and I wanted to move on after 'Love Really Hurts' and things. I used to be with GTO [Records], and GTO sold out to CBS at the time. CBS was still wanting me to do things like 'Love Really Hurts', and that's why my relationship with them fell apart, because now I'm hearing really different music coming from America.
So that music inspired you to do something new?
Yeah. So I want to go to America, I want to work with American musicians, I want to make progress in the sort of music and things I create. I got that opportunity with a giant of guy, the owner of Jive [Records], Clive Calder. Then the connection with Ben Findon [producer of 'Love Really Hurts'] came into it, because I used to do demos for them, and Ben used to ship these demos. There used to be something in in France called Medium, and Medium was like a sort of music exhibition. People from all over the world would come and meet and and swap songs and buy songs, so Clive came from America to England, to sort of, you know, fulfil his dreams. He used to be a bass player in South Africa, and he set up a record company in his wisdom called Jive, and when he came, he was looking for me, thank God.
So Clive sought you out, and was instrumental in steering your new direction?
He heard the voice, he knew I was writing songs, etc, and he hooked me up with a producer and co-writer called Keith Diamond. Keith came and stayed by me, and we wrote two songs; one was 'Lucky Man', and the other one was 'Suddenly'. We played it to Clive, and Clive, he just opened up a whole new world. He said; "Billy, we're going to send you to America", and suddenly I was staying at the flat above the record company, on Lexington Avenue [New York City], and I used to use the flat as a sort of writing room, and we came up with 'Caribbean Queen', and that was it.
You make it sound so easy!
There's a lot of blessings in my life. I could have thanked the Lord for even, you know, some of these things you can't, The one thing I do know about music is, you have to like it first; if you write something, you have to like it first, and you have to before the people like it. If you like it, there's a chance that people can like it; if you don't like it, forget it, because no one else is going to like it.
What do you remember about the recording of the track?
We went into the studio called Unique in New York, and worked with people like Lisa Fischer [backing vocalist] , Wayne Bradford, Autry Wheeler. I mean, I was working at that time with top, top musicians in America. I didn't know that at the time, because, you know, for God's sake, I'm a boy from the East End of London, certainly thrown into the deep end! You work with people, and you give people respect. That's why it's good to respect who you meet, or whatever. Later on, I realised, and I learned that I was working with top notch musicians.
Moving on to 'When The Going Gets Tough', the Tough Get Going', and instantly, the bassline is reminiscent of 'Love Really Hurts'.
That was on purpose, but in a different song.
It's very subtle; I don't think everyone would get it.
That's right, it is very subtle, but it had it, because there's one thing about shuffle beat; if you get a shuffle beat and you get a good melody and good lyric around it, it's successful. That is success. The shuffle beat is unlike any other beat; it just drives, pushes it. You just naturally want to get up !
We were asked to write that for the film 'The Jewel of the Nile with Michael Douglas, Danny DeVito and Kathleen Turner. We were recording at the time, and Clive came down and said; "listen, they would like you to write for the Jewel of the Nile". We sort of got that together, recorded it, and they [the three main movie stars] liked it so much they wanted to be involved in the video. These top notch stars came to Brixton, in this boxy little space that was defunct, and we did a really good video.
What do you remember about working with them on the video? As you say, they're mega movie stars.
Exactly! So you can imagine how I was behaving myself, being very courteous and polite, which I try my best to be. But when you work with top notch stars, you learn from them too, because they were very courteous. They were really nice people. They were very humble people. They went through the trouble to mime the song down to a T. I mean, if you look at the video, you'd swear they were singing, but they were miming. Now to me, that was a hell of an experience. It's still my favourite video.
What few might not know, is you worked with producer Mutt Lang on that song, who had famously worked with AC/DC and Def Leppard, and later, Bryan Adams.
Yeah, AC/DC, Foreigner, Shania Twain. It gave me the opportunity to work with a rock producer. Mutt is great. Mutt is a hard producer to work with. He demands 110% from you, but whatever he does is successful, and he's amazing in the sense that the record is in his head; before it's finished, he knows exactly what he's going to do to it. He's probably - he's not, probably - he is the most amazing producer I've worked with. A brilliant South African man. He came over with Clive; they came over together and set up business; Mutt was the producer, Clive was the record company boss, and I sort of fitted somewhere between the two of them. As I said, my, my trip has been very blessed.
What was it like performing at Live Aid in Philadelphia in 1985?
Yeah, I was on the Philadelphia side, and considering that I only lived, like, half an hour from Wembley, they sent me all the way to Philadelphia! But I was cool with it because it was the early part of my career, so to travel to America was a big thing, and to be rubbing shoulders of the likes of Teddy Pendergrass, The Rolling Stones, some big people, and again, thrown into the deep end, yeah, it was great. I mean, it's the biggest audience that I'd ever heard before. There was lots of them, and my God, I was nervous. I was terribly nervous, but I enjoyed it.
As you've said, music to you is so spiritual, but you've had an Ivor Novello, a Grammy, and countless other awards; what to do those mean to you?
Yeah, a doctorate, all sorts of things. You never know that you're going to get these things, but it's well appreciated, because if you get it, it means that somebody, somewhere appreciates your efforts. It's not something that we've sneezed at in any way. It's also it's not something to think; "well, you have arrived", because you never really arrive, because it's always the next song, or the next record, isn't it? You make a good record; people remember the good music you made. They also remember you for what you donated, but it doesn't stop there; you have to keep making music. That's what you do.
It's been a few years since your last album ''One World' [2020]; any plans for a follow up?
I'm still doing tracks for that album. I was a little bit disappointed, not with the album, but because around the time that that the album came out was covid, and we sort of lost it. But yeah, I'm looking forward to live, to this Rewind. I'm doing a different thing, I'm doing with a brass section, choral section, percussion section. It's going to be slightly different. A lot exciting, as far as I'm concerned, but brilliant!
Billy Ocean plays Rewind Scotland, Rewind North, and Rewind South this summer. For dates and info, visit the Rewind Festival site.
That was on purpose, but in a different song.
It's very subtle; I don't think everyone would get it.
That's right, it is very subtle, but it had it, because there's one thing about shuffle beat; if you get a shuffle beat and you get a good melody and good lyric around it, it's successful. That is success. The shuffle beat is unlike any other beat; it just drives, pushes it. You just naturally want to get up !
We were asked to write that for the film 'The Jewel of the Nile with Michael Douglas, Danny DeVito and Kathleen Turner. We were recording at the time, and Clive came down and said; "listen, they would like you to write for the Jewel of the Nile". We sort of got that together, recorded it, and they [the three main movie stars] liked it so much they wanted to be involved in the video. These top notch stars came to Brixton, in this boxy little space that was defunct, and we did a really good video.
What do you remember about working with them on the video? As you say, they're mega movie stars.
Exactly! So you can imagine how I was behaving myself, being very courteous and polite, which I try my best to be. But when you work with top notch stars, you learn from them too, because they were very courteous. They were really nice people. They were very humble people. They went through the trouble to mime the song down to a T. I mean, if you look at the video, you'd swear they were singing, but they were miming. Now to me, that was a hell of an experience. It's still my favourite video.
What few might not know, is you worked with producer Mutt Lang on that song, who had famously worked with AC/DC and Def Leppard, and later, Bryan Adams.
Yeah, AC/DC, Foreigner, Shania Twain. It gave me the opportunity to work with a rock producer. Mutt is great. Mutt is a hard producer to work with. He demands 110% from you, but whatever he does is successful, and he's amazing in the sense that the record is in his head; before it's finished, he knows exactly what he's going to do to it. He's probably - he's not, probably - he is the most amazing producer I've worked with. A brilliant South African man. He came over with Clive; they came over together and set up business; Mutt was the producer, Clive was the record company boss, and I sort of fitted somewhere between the two of them. As I said, my, my trip has been very blessed.
What was it like performing at Live Aid in Philadelphia in 1985?
Yeah, I was on the Philadelphia side, and considering that I only lived, like, half an hour from Wembley, they sent me all the way to Philadelphia! But I was cool with it because it was the early part of my career, so to travel to America was a big thing, and to be rubbing shoulders of the likes of Teddy Pendergrass, The Rolling Stones, some big people, and again, thrown into the deep end, yeah, it was great. I mean, it's the biggest audience that I'd ever heard before. There was lots of them, and my God, I was nervous. I was terribly nervous, but I enjoyed it.
As you've said, music to you is so spiritual, but you've had an Ivor Novello, a Grammy, and countless other awards; what to do those mean to you?
Yeah, a doctorate, all sorts of things. You never know that you're going to get these things, but it's well appreciated, because if you get it, it means that somebody, somewhere appreciates your efforts. It's not something that we've sneezed at in any way. It's also it's not something to think; "well, you have arrived", because you never really arrive, because it's always the next song, or the next record, isn't it? You make a good record; people remember the good music you made. They also remember you for what you donated, but it doesn't stop there; you have to keep making music. That's what you do.
It's been a few years since your last album ''One World' [2020]; any plans for a follow up?
I'm still doing tracks for that album. I was a little bit disappointed, not with the album, but because around the time that that the album came out was covid, and we sort of lost it. But yeah, I'm looking forward to live, to this Rewind. I'm doing a different thing, I'm doing with a brass section, choral section, percussion section. It's going to be slightly different. A lot exciting, as far as I'm concerned, but brilliant!
Billy Ocean plays Rewind Scotland, Rewind North, and Rewind South this summer. For dates and info, visit the Rewind Festival site.
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